According to Wikipedia, cloud computing is a paradigm of computing in which dynamically scalable and often virtualized resources are provided as a service over the Internet. According to Larry Ellison, it’s nonsense and water vapor.
The chief executive of Oracle last week at the Churchill Club sat down with former Motorola CEO Ed Zander for a fireside chat about the future of the company he co-founded, the pending acquisition of Sun and the implications thereof, and the state of the economy in general.
Most amusing however, was his ranting on cloud computing, captured on video by TechPulse360. Of course, we’ve heard his refreshingly critical take of the buzzword du jour before, but he continues to make it a valid point:
(Via Dvorak Uncensored)
With all due respect to Larry Ellison, he is wrong!!! More and more people are using cloud computing services and loving it. At my company http://www.binfire.com we are doubling our user base every three months!
He does not hate cloud computing. He just hates the use of hte word cloud computing. He makes money by selling his software to the people who sell his softwares to the people who sell services termed as cloud computing. He is just laughing at the fact that people are confusing a server with cloud computing.
If he hates cloud computing then he would be out of business.
+1
Also, OP, “Most amusing however,”. You think Ellison and Zander discussing “the state of the economy in general” is amusing? Tell us what you really think.
This is potentially the dumbest commentary I’ve ever heard on TC.
And yes, I am definitely talking about Larry Ellison’s comments. Who gave him a mic in the first place?!
If he hates the term “cloud” so much, he must also understand what a powerful marketing tool it is for his “Oracle Cloud Computing Center”
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/cloud/index.html
That cloud is going to rain on his parade.
Is that a blonde wig?
Great you are doubling your user base every 3 months… So what is cloud computing?
After you define that, and then define the “internet” or “server” or “network” you will see what he is talking about in the video…
Cloud is the Web2.0, its just marketing crap.
Doubling our user base is not cloud computing, but the fact the software runs on our servers and users’ files and information are saved on multiple servers with mirror disks and the fact that the user only needs a browser to run our tools and no installation and maintenance are needed, in my mind is cloud computing. It seems a lot of people like this approach!
Yes, people like this client/server model so much, that they’ve been using it since before the invention of personal computers. That is the whole point. “Cloud” computing is in fact the oldest form of computing, making it kind of silly to give it a special name.
So what you’re saying is that cloud computing means putting stuff on the Internet?
What a fucking cool idea. Dude.
Sure the technology isn’t new but it *is* a paradigm shift. For the last 15 years, if the average user wanted to write a documnent, they would buy a PC running Windows, a copy of Office, write the doc and then save it on their PC. If they wanted to edit that doc on another computer, they would save it to a floppy/USB or, if they were feeling clever, email it to themselves. Now the time is approaching where if the average user wants to write a doc, they just boot up a browser on any internet-enabled device, use a web-based Word equivalent like Google Apps (or Office Live) and all their docs are already available. Don’t you think such a fundamental shift in the behaviour of the average user has any relevance? Sure it’s just a marketing term but it represents avery real and important change in the way people use computers. So yes, Larry has missed the point.
If you think that what you have described is a ‘fundamental shift’, then you should get into another line of business. Not that much difference between the two, kind of ellisons point, don’t believe the hype, or in your case, the simpletons.
David, the term Cloud is just another stupid buzzword for internet. That’s what Larry is talking about. My company has been offering internet based services for 12+years. Now it’s called the Cloud and everybody thinks it’s cool. I vote we call it the “European Cloud”. If it’s from Europe it must be twice as cool.
Bob-
I loved the “European Cloud” part :)
I get your point, but the term internet services or SaaS over internet is coined as cloud computing. Makes it easier for people to get it.
By the way what is your company?
Cloud Computing is just another buzzword, like AJAX.
but AJAX is powerful and commonly used and its more then just the buzz word now…
+1
Ajax and Cloud are both overly abused but extremely powerful technologies.
Ellison hates cloud computing because it will imply:
- Concentration of computing services with the pricing negotiation power that these providers will get with Oracle.
- More usage of Open Source software in detriment of Oracle’s products.
Ellison prefers to deal with a fragmented market in which he has an advantage.
More and more big companies are abandoning their own infrastructure and moving to the cloud. Its a fact. Nothing to discuss about it really.
+1
+1
For big shots like Larry what he thinks and what he “hates” are always two diff things. Thats just a rule for all public ppl.
Of course he understands what ist all about and why its is dangerous for oracle. And i am 100% sure that his corporation is already workin on some cloud things while he “hates” all that
+1. Cloud Computing commoditizes part of his market, and NoSQL implementations make Oracle’s technology less relevant.
I think he is wrong, too. The cloud services are more about scaling and easy to manage services, instant processing power and seamlessly booting instances. Pay for the real used bandwidth and power rather than a monthly fee.
+1
I agree. Some of the earlier comments about it being a buzz word or overly used are off base. I’ve had colocs, VDS, and finally moved to a cloud service last year because it provided everything you mentioned. Without the things that you mentioned I would not consider a service “cloud computing.” I think some of comments reveal that many do not know what to consider cloud computing or are upset that the term is used too broadly.
Every time something new comes out their is resistance to it. This is pretty much a human trait. 2 years from now no one will even raise an eyebrow to the use of the term “cloud computing”. There will be too many new ones to get angry about. :)
umm…that’s virtualization on steroids
i am also think that cloud computing is necessary these days and we have to work our it.
I love Larry Ellison’s candor, and he’s right..thats all it really is.Yes some of the business model changes here and there but what it really is renting software vs owning it.
I’ve found the whole cloud computing push funny, nothing has really changed, but some people really think this is new.
+1
i also don’t see a difference between cloud computing and SaaS
For the geeks, Cloud Computing is nothing new. The center of where the power exists has shifted back and forth between the client side and the server side many times.
The real key for Cloud Computing is obscuring the actual technology from folks who don’t need to know /worry/care about it. Cloud Computing allows someone with negligible hardware knowledge to build and run a system. It is outsourced hardware.
And I love Larry’s response. It would be like asking a farmer if he is worried about the new trend of “restaurants”. People still eat, even if they consume in a different way.
I am not a technology professional, I’m a business guy, so…. My fascination with the idea of Cloud is the thought that, armed essentially with a super browser, I will be able to interact with real-time technologies, data, and applications, on a scale that I could never possibly hope to achieve on my current internet desktop. Like going from using generators to linking to a grid. Is this what Cloud is about? If it is, then this is truly a change in technology architecture.
@Don
Thats web services not cloud computing.
Actually cloud computing is more likely outsourcing your IT department in a massive way rather than utilizing services from a rich client. With cloud computing you still provide the code that performs the services, but you are free from having to maintain a data center.
Actually what you’re describing is Colocation, renting space at a centrally managed data center that many others rent from. I guess one could argue that it’s slightly different since you rent a “server” to put your code on rather than provide a “server” with your code on it.
But the fact remains that “Cloud Computing” is not a technological shift or innovation, it’s simply a business structure shift for Datacenter companies. Your code is still sitting on a server providing the same services it did before.
The datacenter just charges you for renting equipment now in addition to renting the space and connection like it did before.
Cloud computing refers to technical services (such as databases, file storage, web services) that are accessible only via web APIs. He’s right that companies are misusing the term, and it seems to have everyone confused. A lot of Web-based software companies use cloud services and thus call themselves cloud-based, which is not really true. They’re consumers of cloud services, not providers of it.
Well sure, he’s right, technically – afterall, what’s all this “JavaScript” nonsense I keep hearing? Afterall, it’s all just ASM, which is really all just electrons jumping around on semiconductors, which are really just sand, anyway.
He’s missing the point. The cloud means higher-level abstraction. It means separation of concerns. It means that I, as a developer, no longer have to worry about the lower-layer infrastructure of my application and can instead focus on the core value-adding business layer. This is a good thing.
Well said. Whether you hate new industry terms or not, they do make conversations about the technology easier and faster to refer to. Sometimes of course they are created just to push a weak product that really doesn’t do anything new and that annoys people. But “cloud computing” isn’t one of those and is a valid new term (IMHO).
The Internet is the cloud. Stupid.
everytime I’ve drawn the internet on a whiteboard, that’s how I drew it.
LOL – I like Larry’s sarcasm. And he is quite correct in what he is saying.
He’s partially correct. The term Cloud as a buzzword is overused, as in the instance where it has replaced SaaS, which before that used to be called ASP (Application Service Provider).
But there is a new class of services that allows tech organizations to provision virtual servers, diskspace and bandwidth dynamically to develop and run their *own* applications without heavy up-front capital investment. I’m talking about Amazon Web Services, Google AppEngine, Rackspace Mosso, etc. These are the real Cloud technologies, and they haven’t been around that long.
And Larry should be afraid, because Cloud technology makes possible new applications and business models, and makes use of different core technologies (e.g., Amazon SimpleDB). This is a huge threat to his per-CPU priced cash-cow. Sure, we will always have databases, but they will not always be Oracle.
What is cloud computing anyway, what does larry really hate?
Bingo! Patrick you win the prize!
Isn’t it simply a new business model for hosting software. We started with buying servers for our companies (think of startup costs in 1999). Then using vendors to host on dedicated servers. We’re still using vendors, but no longer dedicated servers but on a “cloud” of shared servers. Not surprising its doing well since cheaper and scalable. However, risks becoming a commodity.
Re innovation, I imagine there’s some innovation involved in addressing reliability, scalability, security and other issues when you mix heterogeneous applications from heterogenous clients with heteroeneous business on shared servers.
Larry’s company may have used a “cloud” for its software in the past, but I think there are different challenges with hosting a mix of software on shared servers, no?
Except this is a case of abstraction and decoupling. Sure the technologies behind cloud computer were in use by companies before, but no one else could use their server farms remotely as a service to run any computing job they desire. Of course you could buy the technologies behind cloud computing in one form or another and use them within in your own business and data centers, but you could not jump on to a local PC and after issuing some server commands via an account start benefiting from a massive server farm configured to allow you to run computing jobs; a server farm that by its very nature was as blind as it could possibly be (decoupled) to the jobs it ran on request.
“Hey! You! Get off of my cloud
Don’t hang around cause two’s a crowd
On my cloud baby”
– Rolling Stones
Why nonsense? No comments…
this guy owns netsuite, a cloud computing (saas) company…
my impression is that he just needed some “air” time and said something controversial to get it. Or, most probably, he’s just stupid (and yes, stupid people can make a lot of money).
With all due respect TechCrunch, Ellison has no “valid points” here. He is merely joking about cloud computing. Or, do you really believe anyone referring to CC thinks there is no hardware behind it. Do you really think IT department does not understand the very basic architecture of cloud computing? I like the inquisitive and candid nature of your articles, but when you throw in stuff like this every once in a while, I get a sobering reality check.
How can a retailer trust Amazon cloud with its data?
Cloud is just for testing and prototyping. If you scale to that level, you can afford a few servers and sys admins of your own.
Oh, Larry, you’re so clever! Whenever he starts with this disingenuous put-down attitude about something in his public speaking engagements it means Oracle is focusing on it and is about to enter the space. I think Sun’s cloud platform expertise is one of the drivers of that acquisition.
Larry isn’t saying he’s against cloud, but he is mis-understanding it – and thereby potentially disadvantaging his company.
Perhaps he’s not an ex-programmer, otherwise he would understand that cloud computing – for the first time in history – puts hardware under application control. Think about it, the implications are awesome! For this reason, cloud computing will come to be understood as perhaps the most significant IT development in the last two decades.
Shame if Oracle’s not a part of it.
sorry, but blah blah blah blah blah.
To me, the difference between cloud computing and client/server is 20 years of evolution in computing or 3 generations (in dog years). Look at Salesforce.com and SAP, both uses client/server technology, but one is 20 years older than the other.
In terms of data flow, Larry has a point that there is no difference between the cloud and the internet. You store information, you process information, and you retrieve information. You need computers, OS, network, servers, applications, the whole stack. These are all very fundamental concepts.
However, cloud is not just about data flow. It’s about HOW you store information, HOW you process information, and HOW you retrieve information. In cloud computing, you have access to thousands of machines. You distribute your data across thousands of disks. You retrieve data from thousands of different servers. You aggregate data and process them on thousands of machines. A distributed batch/process facility is needed to achieve this.
Via cloud computing, you can perform complex operations. It is via cloud computing that Google has been doing complex operations for years using their GFS, SSTable, BigTable, MapReduce, Sawzall. What used to take the “backrub” algorithm weeks, now takes only hours using the cloud. The concept of using the cloud is just now available to the public via Amazon EC2/S3, Hadoop, HBase, so on so forth.
This video simply reaffirms my hunch that Larry is an ignorant fool.
Cutting through buzzwords, the issue is single-tenant versus multi-tenant. There are significant economy-of-scale benefits in the Multi-Tenant model, which simply can not be realized in a single-tenant structure. This reality opens new business models and delivery platforms – currently being called Cloud Computing.
Cloud computing is essentially SaaS. When people normally think of cloud computing today, they thing about basically having data in the cloud (inet) and being able to access from just about anywhere – not being locked down to one device or machine.
People are getting so mobile these days, mobility is the wave of the future, being able to have access to all of your data from practically wherever you go is the benefit. ‘Mobile’ is the future, but cloud computing is just a buzzword for SaaS…. it’s nothing new.
He gives Robin Williams a run for his money!! Brilliant.
Larry Ellison is the Dennis Rodman of tech world.
Larry makes an excellent point. On some level we have to accept that there is a lot of spin and hype in this sector. Why wouldn’t there be? Investment of any type often follows buzz and the result tends to be a solid business case for being associated with the ‘buzzword’ of the moment.
For me cloud computing simply means that you don’t have to own, house and maintain the hardware, to access the computing you need. Is this a new invention? No! In this thread there are mentions of virtual servers, but seemingly no correlation to the fact that a virtual server is running on a real one with real people to maintain it, real memory to store it and real instructions to process it on real processors of course.
Ironically, some seem to think that unless you code in whatever the supposed cloud languages are, you couldn’t understand the cloud. Honestly, having been on DEC’s VAX and PDP, cloud computing is a flash back 30 years in the making. There is some abstraction hardware wise and metaphorically but the result is the same. People are logging into sessions to do their work and access processing. Yesterday’s terminals were not full fledged computers as they are today. Then again, they’re not all full fledged computers are they? You’ve got iPod Touches and RIM devices accessing the same data alongside full fledged computers. Of course the bill gets distributed too.
The only real difference in cloud computing today and yesterday, is that previously it required a mainframe and the dumb terminals which served as the access points. Multiple mainframes might be connected regionally, and while aware of each other had to synch to understand all that the others had processed, which was either done at night or over the weekend. They were connected over dedicated phone lines and eventually Frame Relay and ISDN; the precursors to broadband. Today anything can be a terminal and today’s mainframe is made up of parallel computing clusters. Yeah that’s what Cray/SGI (NUMAlink), Apple/VirginiaTech (X-Grid), AMD, IBM, and Beowulf Clustering and others were up to.
I can understand that a lot of younger people in the tech sector, may not have the historical perspective to KNOW none of this is new. You should keep that in mind the next time you hear some kid swearing their favorite artist’s cover of a song is in fact the original. If you were to ask me what the first cloud language is, I’d tell you COBOL. IS of course because for all that The Cloud allows us to do, no one’s been able to get rid of COBOL completely.
I think Larry is right. You need to understand that Oracle runs a division called Oracle On Demand, where Oracle ERP is hosted by Oracle and customers access the application over the net. This is what precisely called the cloud nowadays. Customer pays a monthly fee thats all. Oracle has the datacenter, runs machines, takes care of software/hardware upgrades, handles backups/network and scaling up/down based on customer’s demand. For an end user of a customer in Oracle On Demand, he does not know/care where the application sits or who maintains it, he just opens his browser, and accesses his application. Oracle has been doing this for more than 10 years now.. You can abstract it at any level, still this is exactly what cloud computing is. IMHO, cloud is old wine in new bottle, and Oracle has been producing both wine and the bottles for sometime now.
Here I thought cloud computing was discovered by Visio back in 1992
Umm, to the haters…did it ever occur to you that you may not be as smart as the founder of Oracle?
Larry has always loved the controversy from stuff like this. The guy is genius and we’re criticizing one of the guys who made large scale data management possible…
I agree with others that he is merely making a joke and that “cloud computing” is a buzz word that has attached itself to outsourced infrastructure incorrectly.
I like turtles.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=0BF&ei=NXzFSsW-H4fAsAb38uHxDg&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=site%3Aoracle.com+cloud+computing&spell=1
Summarize the video! That way I don’t have to watch it!!!
For Oracle cloud computing means less sites to install Oracle software and data bases.
Less sites mean less maintenance revenue.
Simple.
Larry Ellison is just pissed off because he didn’t think of the term “Cloud Computing”. The fact is that it’s a new paradigm that has only been recently possible with the advent of easily accessed internet connections and online SaaS applications, etc. Yes, there are some similarities with the old Timesharing, but that usually required dialing up a single server. Now a single service may be using multiple servers in the Cloud.
Funny to hear him criticize cloud computing when he is the founder and one of the largest shareholders in NetSuite!
Seems to me, the business to be in is “cloud provider”. A company asks a cloud provider to provision the company with whatever services it may need whenever it needs them, and the cloud provider figures out how to requisition the network do that.
Hilarious. …. Larry has been doing cloud computing all along. He is not hostile to the concept, he has been one of its pioneers. What he is hostile to is the terminology, as if it has been something invented last year while Larry was asleep at the wheel.
this internet thing is going to be big.
really.
@ velionch
“Larry Ellison is the Dennis Rodman of tech world.”
What type of analogy is this, I would love to hear how in this world do came to that conclusion?
Cloud Computing hurts the sale of Oracle Licenses.